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Summary:
Did you struggle to pay your taxes this past tax season? Does it feel as though you never have enough capital to cover all your expenses? Denise Grove is a money coach specializing in helping businesses implement Mike Michalowicz’s “Profit First” business model, and can help your firm achieve better profit margins and leave you stress free come tax time. Listen now to see how you can improve your business and thrive!
Denise’s introduction
Denise started working at one of the big four CPA firms, but quickly realized that she loved helping people. She shifted her career to being a money coach, and found joy in helping businesses achieve the success they’ve always dreamed of.
She listened to Mike Michalowicz’s book “Profit First” and while she questioned its business method at first, she realized that this was the solution that was going to help more of her clients succeed. She then became a certified “Profit First” coach, and has been helping her client’s with Mike’s method ever since!
How Denise Helps Clients
Denise talks about how she also acts as an accountability coach for her clients, and gives them a plan to commit to. Denise describes how she also begins by making sure the owner starts paying themselves, as oftentimes she finds the owners don’t give themselves a paycheck. She then looks at their cash flow to see what areas the business is spending money on, and sees if there is an area they can diminish or cancel completely.
She also shares that, because of her time as a CPA, she can aid in interpreting what their tax return is doing, and assist her clients come tax time with organizing their documents.
Denise then talks about times when she sees her clients succeed, and how that is the part of her job that brings her the most joy.
Where Denise Finds Motivation
Denise talks about how she found a lot of motivation in both her Mom and Dad, and although their parenting styles differed, they both helped her tremendously to get her where she is today. She also talks about her husband being a huge motivator in her life, and how she will often bounce ideas off of him to gain a new perspective on a problem.
Denise also credits one of her accounting professors in college for giving her life changing advice. She was close to graduating and had offers from the big eight firm, but was overwhelmed by what decision she should make. She sought out advice from her professor, and he said to go to sleep, and the first firm you think of when you wake up is the firm you should accept the offer from. Denise did just that, and says that was the best advice anyone could have given her; she still uses that method to this day when she is faced with a hard decision.
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Transcript
Dawn Brolin
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Everybody welcome back to the Designated Motivator, the DM disruption. We are here to just hopefully inspire you and give you some encouragement as you work through your day. Hopefully, you’re listening to this podcast while you’re working, just chillin, putting on your little speaker and chillin. But Denise Grove is here with us today. And I know her through Profit First, which by the way, is a book that will change your life period, if you’re in business for yourself, if you have not read the book, you have to read the book. And if you want to learn how to implement it properly, and take advantage of all of the system that Mike Michalowiczhas put together, Denise is your girl. And I’ll tell you, she is a Designated Motivator. She has the greatest attitude. That what she has a passion for is what we I think we all have this passion in a way. But I think that Denise just takes it to a whole nother level. So Denise, welcome to the DM disruption. I I’m a big fan of you. You may be a big fan of me. But that doesn’t really matter here. Because I am a fan of you your color on your shirt is gorgeous. You look beautiful today. Thank you. You’re killing it, you look great. And you sound great. So introduce yourself to everybody tell tell us about Denise, tell us what is her world about what are you doing?
Denise Grove
Well, I am as I’ve always left about I am a recovering CPA, as I started my career at the Big Four public accounting firms and moved into corporate that quickly figured out I love helping people. And the bigger the organization, the further removed you are for being able to say immediately, especially your results. So I have morphed into a money coach. And I especially work with small privately held family and businesses to help them just do better with their money because working with me, there are no stupid money, questions. None. And so…
Dawn Brolin
Never, the only stupid questions is the ones they don’t ask.
Denise Grove
Yeah. And the best thing about zoom and working with people in person too, is you can see their face. So you can see when they’re thinking what on earth is that woman talking about? That we can solve it right? But I listened to Mike read Profit First on Audible and Atlanta traffic one day. And when he starts talking about it, because of course I immediately thought that is not GAAP. That is not accrual accounting. What is this man told about? And by the end of the second or third chapter, I was like, Why didn’t I think of that? Because I struggle with cash flow with my clients where they were waiting on a big deposit to be able to make payroll. And I’ve been empathetic, sweated and sweated thinking, oh my gosh, where are we gonna get the money for the paychecks? His whole idea of segregating the money in bank accounts for its purposes, solves all that angst.
Dawn Brolin
It really does. It really does. I, you know, I read the book went right when it first came out, I’m like, this is a great idea. I’m going to do this. I’m really, okay. This year, I’m really going to do this. It’s like this, oh, no, this year for real. And then January of 2020. I said, this is my year. I’m doing it this year, and I implemented it for powerful accounting. And I have to tell you, I don’t worry about it. Because I you know, you people are always saying to me, Well, what about the percentages? Like how do you start, I go, you know, you do your best you pull a p&l, you should be able to get some idea of the percentages. If you pull a p&l and you’ve got your percent of row and figuring out what you think your payroll percentages, and you know what a lot is, and I’m sure you come across this, you look at it with your client, and they’re like, Yeah, you’re actually at 47%, not 30, or whatever the percentage may be right, exactly. So tell me about that. You because you’re, you’re forward facing these clients, and you’re, and you’re looking at their money because cash is king, I have a former business partner that said to me, if you don’t have cash, you’re not in business. Right? And so tell me what those experiences are like, because I know you have great stories.
Denise Grove
Well, the the first thing is, is the accountability coach. Yeah, like, it’s just like, if I really want to get to the gym, I get a personal trainer. Because if I tell you, I’m gonna see you someplace at 5:30 in the morning, when we have a commitment, I am there. And that is what a profit first coach or any kind of money coach life coach, whatever does, in my opinion, is it makes you have a commitment to another person. And so the first thing is you showing up showing up and being willing to learn. I just have everybody start with 1% and a profit, because the owner takes the profit. And usually I see people who are not taking profit distributions, and the owner is not paying themselves. And that is for the first few things, as Mike talked about his process that I said, Oh, yes, I have seen this over and over again. I look at the whole family or the whole person too. And so one of the things I did is get them to say what do you really need to be taken out of this business to make your family be cared for. And that’s an important component, especially in a smaller business. But we just start, even if it’s just 1%, and a lot of people haven’t paid themselves paycheck in years, especially like with these closures and the pandemic even more so. And so I make them pay themselves something. And that means that we look at the money flowing out to everybody else and say, Okay, what are you not getting value out of? As I’m as guilty as everybody? Netflix? Right? None? Have I believed it can take months? Probably not that they still get it out of my credit card charge, right. And now on a bigger scale, that’s what Profit First helps you do in a business?
Dawn Brolin
Absolutely. It’s, it’s such a great comparison. It’s so true. And you know, you one of the things I think that motivates you, because you are a people pleaser, you are always trying to encourage and bring people up is that when you can have that positive effect, and you see it happening. It’s not just a conversation you’re having with them, because that’s the thing that makes me crazy. That’s why I’m all about the motivation. But it’s not just about being motivated, but do something about it. Right? So you are getting your clients to do something about their situation. And that’s got to be when I’m sure you’ve looked people in the eye and I would be super surprised if you told me know that you had this profit first conversation with them and you implemented and you got it started. And then they start to say, oh, every quarter I can take that profit and to look in their eyes in their face and their soul because that’s what you’re doing. Right it’s about the people. I’ve you had to have gotten a tear to from your clients tell me I have. I have and by the way, we did not prep this No, in practice I I’m saying this genuinely out of knowing you. So tell me
Denise Grove
Well, I have in the end the best one was ever one of my clients and when I when I say her books were a challenge. I’m being very kind. It takes us each year with a bookkeeper the right bookkeeper in the in the on our team, we’ve got to moved, got her books sorted out, we got her started profit first. And at the end of about almost a year. I looked at her one day and I said I am so delighted for you. It she went “Denise is delighted you just made my day.” They see her I mean it was because she had made so much progress in 12 months.
Dawn Brolin
It’s just beautiful. I mean, you know, the way I look at it, too is like this conversation about the payroll and having the cash flow and your payroll and like for accounting firms. For me, my Labor’s my big cost, right technology honestly isn’t bad. I tell people so I’ve got the new book coming out DM disrupt- so does a motivator for accounting professionals in it’s about having the right technology in place and having you know your systems and things so you can get more work done and not be so administrative. Right. And I was talking with another practitioner and she was like Dawn, I need you to help me I got to understand what you’re doing blah, blah, blah. And I said, Yeah, I mean, it’s costing me, I added on the last software I just added on was Corp V and it’s a taxpaying software, it’s not cheap, but it’s it’s a great tax planning tool. So that was 1000 bucks a month prior to that it might my total technology per month for my there’s only four of us $1,700 a month to run a whole accounting practice. And so I find that the cashflow, we’re realizing where our real costs are. And then at the end of the day, like the tax account, that’s a genius to me. I’m like, I put 15% away, it’s way more than I need. But I know my taxes, my money that I overtaxed is always there.
Denise Grove
Exactly. And they will like in Friday, Friday being the deadline if you’re for personal taxes, right. And in mulata, small businesses you and I know are either partnerships or S Corp. So the tax liability flows to the owner is personal taxes. I had a phone call Friday. And actually the owner said, we’re on our way to the post office, my partner is taking both our returns and you know, sending him in getting the green card back. So the IRS can’t say they didn’t get it. And, and he said we had too much money in our tax account. He said, I’ve been in business over 20 years, and I have been scrambling today usually to get the money to try to pay the taxes. And he said, what a relief profit first process is to me, because we have plenty of money and we had a little leftover face to face. I’m going to use that to go ahead and get my estimated taxes paid for 2021.
Dawn Brolin
You know, what, what more can you get out of like, I mean, okay, so you escaped. You’re an escapee from the CPA lands. So you’re, you know, you don’t have those on Friday? Oh, my goodness, days. Right. And, and because I’ve implemented processes, I was on my boat on Friday. I did not I did not prepare taxes. I’m gone. I had it all done. And, you know, I find that, you know, the definition of insanity of doing things over and over again, the same way. Is is literally insanity. What it like, who wants to live in that world? And like you said to me and having that tax money there? What a relief on his soul. Yeah, obviously at the end of the day, right.
Denise Grove
Exactly. Well, and that’s a lot of it. You know, having the money stable, is what gives you that peace of mind. And then you can actually, definitely on your business, you know, helping your clients.
Dawn Brolin
Yeah, I mean, you again, being an escapee, which is where my call your Denise escapee Grove from now on, you’re the escapee
Denise Grove
I need some bars behind me, put you in jail.
Dawn Brolin
Which they love. Because you and I talked about this, almost every guest that we have on because my whole thing is, listen, find what you love to do, because you’re going to do it for a long time. And yeah, you you have that CPA experience, you’re you’ve gone through that process, and you’re like, Ah, now instead of being that person who’s maybe delivering the tax return to the client who owes the tax money, which is stressful for everybody, by the way, it’s not just you, the client, we are stressed out about it, too. Sometimes I’m more stressed out about it than they are. You know, you said to you delivering the tax return on Friday, you have a client now because you’ve decided to focus in an area that you’re passionate about you love, you’re motivated to get up every day and see that client, you get the phone call have I had a great day to day I paid my taxes, and I still had some money leftover. Right? And you’re getting out. I feel like that value that you’re adding to them, but what you’re giving to them as their money coach is priceless for them, of course.
Denise Grove
Absolutely. And one of the beauties of being understanding that tax background and having that auditing background, and having worked in big corporate and understand a much bigger picture, it makes it easier for me to make it into baby steps. And no Priority A is this. Now we’ve got that under control listed B and we don’t have to worry about that yet. I know it’d be nice fellas stay focused on this systematic plan. And if he doesn’t, you’ll get overwhelmed as an owner. Number 1..
Dawn Brolin
you only have so much time, right?
Denise Grove
The time as well as the lack of expertise. So they look at it and go I have no idea where to start. So we don’t start. That’s human nature.
Dawn Brolin
You know, that’s an interesting comment, because I was thinking about kind of something similar to that last week. I sit there going, Oh my goodness. So this client notified me on Tuesday. They had hired an r&d Research and Development Credit Specialist right. And I had actually had a conversation with this client with one months ago. didn’t go anywhere and nothing ended up happening because that’s not my specialty. Right? Right. So I get the email on Tuesday, hey, we got to have the 2020 superseded return needs to be filed by Friday. And I’m like, Okay, so first of all, I’ve never dealt with an r&d credit on a tax return. That, you know, I’m not a big for I’m not doing multimillion dollar returns, I’m doing pretty, pretty basic returns over here. And I was like, Oh, my God, I immediately I could feel the anxiety in my body going like this. Am I gonna be able to do it? Do I don’t? Do I know enough? Well, this r&d company was awesome. They gave me the forms all filled out already. So I just had to kind of translate that into a Lacerte talk. To make sure that through, I’ll tell you what, I probably spent five hours on something that should have taken me a half an hour because I just didn’t know. But it does. It paralyzes you, if you’re a business owner, and you’re like, I don’t know how to do this, and I’m going to put that off, because these things that I know how to do, I’m gonna go do those things. Right? Right. So that’s what your critical that accountability that you’re giving them?
Denise Grove
Well, in the baby steps, not to take off of other you know, personal financial, you know, Dave Ramsey baby steps out of debt. But I’m gonna ask you about that. Yeah, this is baby steps two, and saying, we’re gonna do this, this is what we’re gonna do. And this will result in you being here, this next month. And so breaking it down into manageable…., well, it’s just like running a marathon. You know, I’m not gonna go run the savannah marathon or Boston marathon or anything, just get up in the morning and go do it. You’re gonna train all year long. And you’re probably going to try to run a half marathon. Right, you know, and then, you know, I mean, it is it is a process and run in your money is the same process. Yeah, people just don’t think of it in that terms.
Dawn Brolin
No, that’s so true. And I have, interestingly enough, whenever I have a client on the phone, and we’re talking about cash flow concerns, or just I just don’t seem to ever have enough money, blah, blah, blah. And it’s like, people don’t really think about your business and you need a new computer. Let’s, for instance, your computer died or whatever. And you just you have to get a new computer. You got to figure out how to come up with the money for that, right? Typically, what do they do? They go into debt, they buy an asset, they’ve got debt. And I always tell my clients do not always is always a big word, but I very frequently tell them, always just kind of, you know, but I frequently tell them, Listen, I know what you’re in. I know, I know what we’re doing some tax planning, and their first thing is, I’ll go buy a vehicle, or I’ll go buy a piece of equipment, I’ll go buy this, and I’m like, Okay, number one, do you need it? Like, do you really need it? Like, is that gonna make you money? Or are you just are you spending money? Like, you go buy a truck? Let’s say it’s a 6050 $60,000 truck. Now, you’ve got to know on that thing for six years, and you want to section 179? And this year, are you crazy? Now you’re paying that you got dead money out there? Dead money, and they just don’t think of that. And you know, that’s the bonus you can give as being a CPA and having that tax knowledge to be able to help coach them through those kinds of conversations, right?
Denise Grove
Oh, exactly. And a lot of times I interpret in English, what the tax return is doing, because let’s face it, look in all those form numbers and and as little grids is, even though I’m comfortable doing it is my forte, and so I’m looking going Okay, where did that number come from? Where that No, and you have met a lot of people aren’t detailed. And so you know, no, take one look at that and go, Huh, you know, so, you know, being able to say this as the upside. And the other advantage too, is because I am knowledgeable of it. I know exactly when to say we need to get some tax planning going right now on this. Because there’s sharks thing that didn’t make a hill of beans on but some transactions or deals or however you want to put it you want to get the tax planning piece in before you putting on the paper not after?
Dawn Brolin
Yeah, absolutely. And I think that, you know, you being able to have those eyes on top of the Profit First, the entire program that you’re able to do that combinations lethal, to be honest with you, like you’re, you know, that’s Mike’s goal, eradicating small business debt, like that’s what he wants to do. And you’re out there doing that. I think that’s phenomenal.
Denise Grove
I love it.
Dawn Brolin
I love doing it. Mike is a looney tune. Love that guy. He’s like a brother. Like I just love that guy. Because he’s as crazy as I am. He’s like the other other half of me is the man side. But, but so I want to I want you to tell me, who was somebody that motivated you in your life that kind of like maybe you were in a kind of a funky, a funk or you’re in a scenario or you just had this person that was always there to pick you up when you were down? Because listen, as a motivator, I get down let’s be honest . You know, we’re we have struggles to people I know it’s hard to believe. We just seem to have figured out how to overcome them. But we dip, we do dip. And so what what is only about that story for Denise?
Denise Grove
Well, there’s a, there’s several, you know, several situations like that. And I’ve got it first, of course give it to my parents, you know, they had, of course, very different styles, my mother’s motivating style was much more gentle. And my dad’s basically said, you will do it and get over it. And so, yeah, that combination of parenting styles was definitely a motivator, because I never wanted to disappoint them. And so, you know, my motivation to help, you know, improve was good. And of course, now my parents are both have passed on. So my husband is a big motivator, because, yeah, he will give me his perspective. He’s not an accountant. Of course, yeah. And so he gives me a whole different perspective on ideas that are out to bounce by him. Then one of my favorite stories is in college, I had offers from back then all the big the big firms, the big 8 firms, all basically the same offer. And so, okay, I couldn’t figure out which one to go with. And one of my accounting professors who was also a mentor to me, he said, Okay, just stop thinking about it tonight. Think about it, and get inside. Okay, that’s it. I’m not thinking about this anymore. And then tomorrow morning, when you wake up, the first firm on the top of your brain is the will offer you except it worked. The rest of my life, when I’ve been in one of those cars, you know, some things, it’s really clear, the cons outweigh the pros, but some things are real, even. And so they’ll still to this day, that’s my technique. I think about it, I go to bed, and I have the answer in the morning.
Dawn Brolin
I love that. And you know, what great advice from your professors. I you know, I’ve done some teaching at the local university. And I’ve always tried to steer them in the right direction and give them kind of an open mind to different things that they could do. I want one young man who applied to be in the IRS for criminal investigation, because he, you know, I talked a lot about the forensic work that I do and things like that he was so excited about it, and being able to give them that guidance like you. I mean, who knows what I mean, that you never Hindsight is 2020, which I still think it’s a weird weird saying, but not really sure. So, but just thinking back, like what your life would have looked at look like so differently,
Denise Grove
if I could have, it really could have because, you know, going with KPMG, I went started in the Dallas office after interning in Birmingham, and I was selected to rotate through a national and the Department of professional practice. So here I was not even quite 25 years old, right and firm policy on how we were going to audit through the computer, that nobody could make stuff up on us anymore. You know, I mean, it’s just, it’s just phenomenal. But my career path led to just that one, one good night’s sleep. Right? So I next time I’m down in Auburn, I’ll have to let Wayne Wayne up and let him know that he changed the trajectory of my life.
Dawn Brolin
I mean, those are that’s, that’s unbelievable. I mean, what better compliment can you get from a former student or from like my, in my case, a lot of times athletes, a student athlete that’s like, hey, you know, you’re the reason why I came here, or you’re the reason why this and that, and that’s you there’s no money speaking about money, there’s no money that can you can be paid to get that kind of a feeling. Do you know what I mean? And I’m sure you’re seeing but you’re Denise, you’re doing that for people now. So you’re what my one of my old coaches always said, pass it on. The whole goal is if you learn something, and you gain and benefit from something, then you pass it on to the next person, and then they’ll pass it on to the next person. And that’s how we all get better. And that’s what you’re doing. That’s what you’re doing. So are there any last thoughts you want to leave with people’s or you know, a message you want to leave with the listeners today?
Denise Grove
I just think that every day you need to get up. It’s a brand new opportunity to get out there and do good and be helpful and kind of people. Yes, just leave things better than you found them. Even if it’s just a little bit at a time. And you know it of course you’re I’m not much for looking back. Yeah, so I have I’ve got a long rash of mistakes, but I just don’t dwell on them. I just say okay, well.
Dawn Brolin
Yep. I call I always say life is like an etch a sketch every night. You You shake that thing clean you get up the next morning you’re all ready to write a new story. Exactly all you can do that’s all you can do. And you know lifting other people up and doing those kinds of things with your your natural do that you have the sweetest southern voice in the whole wide world. And you know we love a good so I was almost gonna say Hey, she said money because you said something different. You said I forgive Why don’t you say money? How do you say money?
Denise Grove
Money Money, money. And you say it because if you think I have an accent mama had you? I love it.
Dawn Brolin
I love it. DENISE I thank you so much for even just taking your time out of your day to talk to the listeners today. And just to spend some time with me which I was really excited about because I do remember you from Profit First and the downs of the conference profit con and and I’m like wow, this is going to be cool because anytime we could talk about Mike Michalowicz and at least pick on him a little bit because you know he deserves that is a good day for me. So thank you for your time you do look beautiful. I love that blue color. And you stick with that looks great. And thank you for all you’re doing for small business out there. And we’re just going to keep on shouting to the rooftops as all we can do, right?
Denise Grove
Yeah. And thank you for the opportunity because when I saw you had your new book out and the podcast and you were looking for people to be guest, I said I’m gonna support Dawn and show her I am a designated motivator!
Dawn Brolin
You are Denise and I mean it really does like I have chills it means the world to me that you know that you would want to support me in this and I just want to help people just like you and you know, you want to help people too. And we’re all in this together and it’s just like you said everyday just try to be nicer just even one smile at the at the Dunkin Donuts girl or wherever you go. And just be like, Hey, I hope you have a great day you know, like really actually mean it don’t be exactly we want we want it to be genuine. So, Denise, thank you again so much. And thank you to listeners who are listening to the SM disruption today with Dawn roll and excited to just continue to help motivate but I want you to take some action. If you have not read Profit First you need to read that book by Mike michalowicz . And you can call Denise Grove if you want to coach she will help you straighten out your money. She’s a money girl and she will help straighten you out. So thanks again, Denise, and we’ll talk to you soon. You’re awesome.
Denise Grove
Very good. Thank you.
Dawn Brolin
Hi, thank you so much. Bye bye, everybody.
